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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:57 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Hello everyone,

So I've just moved to a small apartment and did a quick makeshift studio setup. Just wanting to treat my living room to the best of my ability. I've attached a drawing to illustrate what I'm working with. Please don't mind the mess I've still got a lot of work to do. Goals are just acoustic treatment, no real ability to do any isolation here. I'd appreciate any feedback, tips or ideas. I know its not a perfect situation, but the room is decently sized and not a perfect square at least. So far I've centered the speakers and placed them pretty close up against the windows, in order to conserve space. I could probably move them further back off the wall but maybe it would be best to ditch the stands and get a desk they could sit on. Would this be compromising clarity in the interest of space? I will probably build a more functional desk at some point as well.

Room Dimensions:
Length: 18ft
Width: 13ft
Height: 8ft
Speakers:
Yamaha HS80m
Speaker stands are made of 4" ABS/PVC pipe filled with 25lbs of sand each.
Speaker height is currently 48.5" to center of tweeter. Just realized this being almost dead center of the floor to ceiling.
Is this an issue? I could lower them (by cutting the ABS pipe) or raise them with some paver stones.
Broadband traps
2'x4' x 4" Roxul AFB Quantity 4 (I'll be adding 2 more panels and can build more)
16"x4' x 2" Roxul AFB Quantity 4

Attachment:
IMG_7081.JPG


Concerns and questions:
-Windows are not centered so the front wall isn't symmetrical. Right speaker is closer to drywall while the Left is directly in front of a window. If my understanding is correct the window shouldn't be too much of an issue, but the symmetry could be as well as the proximity to walls?

-Bass trapping the front wall left corner with the window.
Super chunks would be tricky given the window on the left which I would like to be able to open. I could always find a way I suppose. I was thinking of building a movable stand for the broadband panels to stradle the corners, as well as 4 triangular shaped traps to hang above and below straddling the 3-wall corner points. Does this sound like a good plan?

-Same thing with rear wall symmetry.
For example, should I bass trap the corner by the hallway door? (Left side of rear photo.)

-Left wall is a partial wall that divides kitchen and living room area.

- Couch and tv stand are probably not ideal, but its a living room after all.

- Hanging the ceiling cloud. The ceiling is an acoustic/popcorn ceiling, building is built in 1962 so possibly contains asbestos. I will probably buy a test kit before I hang anything. I may be able to suspend a cloud off the front wall since the speakers are close to the front wall currently.

-I've sort of placed the broadband panels, it seems the side reflection points are quite close to each other and one 2'x4' x4" panel covers both points. I could place two traps on each side for good measure. Should my speakers and I should be further apart? Currently the speakers are about 46" apart and 46" to the listening position.

-REW testing. I've sort of read about this, a while ago and will freshen up on the subject.
1. Does the room need to be completely empty to test, or should i test with what is going to be in the room, as it currently is? (hope so cause that would be a pain haha)
2. If I remember correctly, I place a speaker in the corner and fire off a frequency sweep. Then adjust the reference mic to find the best frequency response for listening position. Can I just try moving the speakers and listening position a couple inches forward to find the best compromise of space and frequency response, and also try different sizes of the "listening triangle"? I should probably just reread the HOW TO TEST YOUR ROOM thread, so my apologies if these are redundant questions.

Photos:
Attachment:
IMG_7183.JPG

Attachment:
IMG_7184.JPG

Attachment:
IMG_7186.JPG


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:03 pm
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Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Quote:
I could probably move them further back off the wall but maybe it would be best to ditch the stands and get a desk they could sit on. Would this be compromising clarity in the interest of space?

You should keep your speakers ~4" from the windows and fill that space with 4" of insulation to help with SBIR. Try to place your head around the 38% mark in the room.

Quote:
Speaker height is currently 48.5" to center of tweeter. Just realized this being almost dead center of the floor to ceiling

That sucks but it's a common problem. Unless you buy a special chair that allows you to kneel lower than a regular sitting chair, that could be a solution.

Quote:
but the symmetry could be as well as the proximity to walls?

You seem to realize that this room/set up is not ideal but at least you have a place. Just make sure your speakers and head are in centered between your side walls.

Quote:
-Bass trapping the front wall left corner with the window.
Super chunks would be tricky given the window on the left which I would like to be able to open. I could always find a way I suppose. I was thinking of building a movable stand for the broadband panels to stradle the corners, as well as 4 triangular shaped traps to hang above and below straddling the 3-wall corner points. Does this sound like a good plan?

You need bass traps so if that means making them movable to open the window, then do that for sure.

Quote:
-Same thing with rear wall symmetry.
For example, should I bass trap the corner by the hallway door? (Left side of rear photo.)

If I were you, I'd investigate the idea of building a partition wall so that you can block off of the kitchen. The kitchen will ruin your acoustic response. The rear wall symmetry isn't super super important, but you should block off the kitchen. Like every other control room design, make sure you put as much deep absorption on your rear wall as possible.

Quote:
Should my speakers and I should be further apart? Currently the speakers are about 46" apart and 46" to the listening position.

Speakers between ~28% and 34% (20% min and 40% max) width of the room away from the side walls. 25% is BAD! This is a frequency null point! Also don’t put them on the 45 degree line from the corner however put them as far apart as possible.

Quote:
1. Does the room need to be completely empty to test, or should i test with what is going to be in the room, as it currently is? (hope so cause that would be a pain haha)

Read the REW instructions here on the forum and you'll see that you need to take baseline tests with an empty room.

I look forward to seeing your progress!

Greg

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It appears that you've made the mistake most people do. You started building without consulting this forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:10 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:57 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Wow! Thank you both Greg and Stuart for the thoughtful detailed responses. I've just returned from a camping trip and still have a lot of work cut out for me as I'm still moving in and organizing.

While this room is decently sized the apartment is quite small unfortunately. I also cohabit the space with my girlfriend who has grown accustomed to music gear and is mostly on board with whatever I need to do to make the room functional for me. I don't want to take over the space completely and make it nonfunctional as a living space. That said I will definitely take your advice as far as I can, practically. This is going to be a process and likely will take several weeks if not months for me to complete. I also will likely have to compromise and live with the fact that this is apartment is a rental and not a perfect/ permanent room. Just want to do the best I can within reason.

A few more questions have come up, in regard to your advice.

Gregwor wrote:
If I were you, I'd investigate the idea of building a partition wall so that you can block off of the kitchen. The kitchen will ruin your acoustic response. The rear wall symmetry isn't super super important, but you should block off the kitchen. Like every other control room design, make sure you put as much deep absorption on your rear wall as possible.

For making a partition wall. This would have to be modular/removable for the reasons listed above and Unfortunately the partial wall is perpendicular to and directly in front of the apartment entrance. So could a partition wall be made out of something like a gobo, also does a partition have to extend floor to ceiling or is 3/4 to the ceiling better than nothing? thinking I might not be able to make them as tall for storage purposes.
Soundman2020 wrote:
Treat the entire rear wall.

A bit confused, as to where/how to treat the wall, In theory I could build a frame out of 1x6 in front of the wall and cover the entire wall with Rockwool or 703 and wrap it in fabric? is this an adequate way of doing things compared with straddling the corners with 6" bass traps and hanging panels at reflection points? I'll have to balance cost, function and appearance i suppose.
Soundman2020 wrote:
Your room is going to have two different acoustic response curves: one for the room itself, the other for the room combined with the kitchen. So there will be two sets of decay times: the initial decay will be just from the room, then that will be followed by a longer, slower, lower decay coming back form the kitchen. The two spaces are acoustically coupled.

See partition wall question above^
Soundman2020 wrote:
Ummmm.... symmetry! :) Problem... The couch could go on the rear wall, instead of the right wall, and maybe have the TV inside one of those cabinets where the screen slides down inside the cabinets when it is not being used, then pops up where you need it. The cabinets could be positioned just behind your chair at the mix position. Something like this: https://www.touchstonehomeproducts.com/ ... t-cabinets

This is an option! That tv stand is wild! I was planning to get a slightly bigger couch though, at 90" wide the side wall seems like the best spot for it. I guess the rear wall could work though. OR I could possibly place the couch in the middle of the room in front of the hallway door I think and get away with it. Though aesthetically it might make the room seem a bit smaller/ less open.

Is there a way to understand how much of a difference this kind of furniture placement will make? While testing the room should i test with both configurations as I add in and reconfigure the furniture? Will a sofa up against the wall act as a sort of bass trap?

I would think not everything will be symmetrical as I will have no doubt guitar amps/ bass amps against either side wall. I was thinking of building a small gear rack as well.
Any reading recommendations to help me understand the way furniture and gear affects acoustics?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:57 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Los Angeles, CA
I've completed my REW baseline test with the room empty.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/28r4e7uad4tvj4k/victorr_sun%20REW.mdat?dl=0

Hopefully I did it correctly, cause I had to move all my furniture into my bedroom. If it's incorrect I'll have to try it again another week.

I was wondering how cars driving by could affect my test though. I can definitely hear them. Although I tried to do it when it was quiet, I live in the city and was a bit rushed today.

Any help understanding what I'm looking at would be much appreciated.

Best,
Vic


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