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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:34 am 
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Thanks for all the great info Steve.. I always completely grasp everything you have to say. You RoCK!
Thanks!
Ron


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:44 am 
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"I always completely grasp everything you have to say" -

Ron, I don't see how that's possible - I only understand about 35% of my comments myself... :?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:51 am 
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Ok - there are three ways to mount your soffits.

The first is the simplest which is as per my design at SAE and which we've further updated through drawings posted here in these forums. The idea is to make the whole soffit frame as rigid and solid as possible using double layers of MDF/plywood glued and screwed thus lowering the resonate frequency of the whole structure.

Thomas has added two other variations. His first is the one you are refering to where he has isolated the speakers from the front of the soffit by mounting the speaker onto a platform that is entirely supported by the rear frame of the system so the box vibrations do not transfer to the front of the baffle and are entirely absorbed into the rear frame. i.e as per his soffit mount thread in the speakers forum.

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=718

The other is to build a speaker support that is attached to the floor and supports the speaker box entirely without touching any of the soffit framing. The best example of this is in Dave Blauvelt's construction here:

http://johnlsayers.com/Studio/Pages/Bluefield1.htm.

As far as the baffle extending downwards - if you look at the SAE design the baffle is set back so as to allow for an absorption front to be added to stop rear of console reflections confusing the issue.

The alternative is to continue the baffle downwards in the same plane as is illustrated here at Masterphonics.

see attached pic.

Finally there is a fourth method, Sjoko's method, where he only built the front baffles and left the rear open.

Image

cheers
john


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:19 am 
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John, Steve, Thomas, and everyone else who has helped me on this thread...

A HUGE THANK YOU!!!!!! for all the continued support on all my questions and all the great combined knowledge of everyone here on design, acoustics, techniques, construction, and theories, etc.

These last couple of posts may take a few days for me to grasp, digest, dissect, and absorb every word you just posted. Any questions I have from that, I'll post.

THANK YOU AGAIN! I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH... :!: :!: :!:

:D :wink: 8) :shock: :o :mrgreen:

Aaron


Last edited by Aaronw on Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:37 am 
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OK. Let the questions begin again...I'll start off simple (yeah right :) ).

Quote:
That being said, I would tend to build a separate free-standing frame (it could be anchored to the floor, but NOT any sprung wall panels) kind of like a large drum gong stand, and hang the hangers from that using either multi-strand vinyl-coated cable and cable clamps, or chain. You might build something like a miniature "gazebo" frame, with 4 posts and a pair of "ceiling joists" left to right, then put 2x4's spaced at right angles to the long joists, lined up to support two points on each hanger. If you offset each hanger in a herringbone pattern within their cavity, the framing for this "hanger hanger" could get kind of tricky.


Now this is going to get really troublesome, unless I beef this thing up. As you probably know, but I'll refresh the topic. I have now finished (the front) the outer wall on what I call the front wall (where the soffit wall is). It is steel studs / RC1 / 2 layers 5/8" drywall (overlapped at corners, sealed/caulked each layer, etc.) Once I complete (almost done) the rest of the second layer towards the rear, I will then be putting in the ceiling hanging down on RC, inside the outer walls.

Here's the tricky part and the question: Not a problem building the frame. BUT, from what you just explained, the only part of this entire front soffit wall w/ several hundred pounds of weight doing a balancing act, is only supported by screwing it to the floor. I can't attach the framing to the walls and or ceiling. OH Boy! We need to figure this one out quick. Think of it this way, if front wall is angled towards you at the top, all the weight from the 1" ply + 3/4" mdf will make the framing top heavy, (and at some point I plan to hang a large plasma there too). Which conceivably could lean forward over time and come crashing down.

Now, in part of framing this entire front soffit wall, we need to come up with a structural bracing to keep this from happening. Not to mention, having to screw the heck out of it to the floor. Another option or really a question. Look at the 3d drawings I've posted. Between the "Right", "Center", and "Left" Sections of the soffit wall, I was or have been assuming that I would put walls internally on the framing between each section for isolating. I hope I'm on the right track here. This would allow for strengthening the framing of the soffit/front wall system. In other words, a solid wall insulated, and plywood between the 3 sections, plus the bass trap section on the left side.

This ought to get the creative wheels rolling again... :)

Thanks,

Aaron

BTW...still no email notifications on reply's...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:07 am 
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"a solid wall insulated, and plywood between the 3 sections, plus the bass trap section on the left side. " - depends - if the wall behind the plasma "wannabe" is part of your mass-air-mass envelope, attaching anything internal to that and the floor will weaken isolation (not sure how much) - but, if you frame without touching the outer wall, and attach plywood to the frame, and fasten solid to the floor and front panel, that would help brace things. Also, since left, center and right sections meet at angles, they would be supporting each other at those joints. It's mainly at the outer edge of the speaker soffits that would be the problem of tipping over by twisting that wall section.

One possible way to keep this from happening is to build a cage inside the soffit/trap area, resting joists on top to hang your bass hangers on - if you were to build that cage as I marked up your drawing, it would brace the soffit AND support joists for hangers -

Keep in mind that I'm talking from THEORY here, with a fair amount of NON-studio building experience - John may have something much simpler that he's actually built and tested... Steve


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:35 am 
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Hi Steve,

I understood the frame portion for the hangers. But at the same time, trying to figure out structure/construction method in which the soffit wall will stay put since I will not be able to attach the floatedwalls/ceiling that's on RC according to your earlier post.

I have another question that popped up during reading the post on soffits. Would you be so kind as to distinguish the difference between: Baffle, baffle extension, soffit, soffit box, flush mount, bezel, speaker box baffle, extended soffit baffle, soffit face, etc.

Using all the different terms, I haven't a clue what you were really describing. :? :? :? :?

As far as the
Quote:
plasma "wannabe"


The company I work for...we're dealers for video too. (Although plasmas are still pricy as a dealer). We just unloaded a 50" viewsonic today for a client. What a beauty.

Aaron


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:24 am 
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"Baffle, baffle extension, soffit, soffit box, flush mount, bezel, speaker box baffle, extended soffit baffle, soffit face, etc" -

Baffle, Speaker box baffle, both refer to the front surface of a box speaker, where the holes are filled with speaker drivers.

Soffit box refers to the built-in box in a flush mount system, where you slide your speakers into.

Soffit and Flush Mount, when referring to speakers (not lights) are the same thing - normally refers to the entire construction for flush mounting of speakers.

Bezel is a term used normally in jewelry and watches, refers to a part that surrounds another part - in flush mounting, it's the piece Thomas showed in "clear" material, that you would make specifically for different speakers to fit snugly in the same wall. Kind of a "mounting ring", or a spacer.

Extended soffit baffle - the face of a soffit, held flush with the face of the speaker, that extends the effective size of the speaker's front baffle in order to force the driver into "half space" radiation. This happens when the flat surface the driver is aligned with is too big to allow the lower frequencies to "wrap around", so they must radiate only in the forward hemisphere.

Soffit face - refers to the exact plane on the face of a flush mount system, which should align exactly with the same plane of the speaker being mounted.

Did I miss any?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:43 am 
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Hmmm. OK.

Didn't mean to sound like an idiot when I posted that question. Some I knew, some I didn't. Some sounded like the same thing. Just wanted to clarify for myself and others reading this post.

Thanks.

In the previous post you made, it would make since that because the front walls are angled, that it would help support the soffit wall. Still kind of unsure about that somewhat, especially if all the weight is on top. Looking at Johns soffit design, it appears the bottom half is only something like 703 covered in cloth. Or is there something in front of it(plywood or mdf)? I'll try and post a drawing when I have time to draw it up.

Thanks again,

Aaron


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:50 am 
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Well, just went and listened to the JBL LSR6300 series monitors in a 5.1 setup over at Oceanway Studios. The new features w/ RMC (room mode correction) is a pretty cool feature. The room had a 53 Hz spike, and w/ a small adjustment, voila...corrected. Much more variable for tuning in the monitors for you room. I have the original LSR 28's, so I was familiar w/ the sound, but the RMC, sure cleaned up the sound. May have to crossgrade over to these when my room get's finished here soon.

Hmmm...still don't know if I'm going to attempt soffit mounting my LSR's though?? I may just put them on stands, and only soffit mount for 2 mix applications a different monitor? Any affordable ideas?

Aaron


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:57 am 
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Nah, everything I want costs more than I'll earn before I die :cry: Kinda thinking along the same lines for my next place tho, passive surround(on stands) /active sub/high end (Denon) receiver for surround, soffited mains (nothing picked yet, just want $20k speakers for $400 each) - I figure if I don't do my homework in isolation and acoustics first I'm wasting whatever I spend on speakers/mics, etc, so it'll be awhile... Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:40 pm 
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Hey Steve,

I used to think that way. But I'm too damn determined these days. (Somewhat anyway). I know I can do anything I put my mind to. There will be a day when I have that nice Neve room, or API, or ??? There will be a day when that Grammy sits on top of the fireplace mantle. (whenever I get a fireplace :lol: )

As you've seen from construction I've done already, I never expected to have ever done something like this by myself. (98.9% of it anyway). It's been a challenge, but I also wouldn't have gotten this far without the help of you, John, and everyone else here on the forum.

:D

Aaron


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:57 am 
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Hey, I didn't say I was smart enough to give up, just (somewhat) aware of the difficulties... :? (Must come with being a Taurus... :=) Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:22 am 
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:) I didn't mean it that way... BTW, Aries over here. B-day is this weekend. Having a party Saturday, so I get to show everyone how the studio's coming along.

Well, just got a quote from the AC guy to redo the duct work in the basement for the existing unit...$1400.00

I don't know if that's good or bad just for doing ducts. Maybe this includes the automated dampers and extra thermostats for each room?? (doubtful) I'll have to check w/ them.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:14 am 
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OK, finally got these darn pix developed. Let's go back in time, and I'll fill in some of the blanks on the floor. Then I'll post some additional wall pix and the mount.

Here we go...


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