AudioGrotto Build Diary

bassman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:40 pm

Yeah! Piccies

Should be a good size this page....

OK

829 looking through the back wall of CR 2 into the CPU hall with the HVAC trunk coming in overhead. that was a tricky fitting to get made.

830 we had to put up two layers here right on the upper joists for fire rating. this is the cpu room so noise to the upstairs is not an issue. notice the gyp going up vertical but not touching the ceiling layer. this is part of our fire blocking scheme.

832 electric boxes one iso ground and one utility in the front wall of CR 2

834 the panel..... notice the neutral bar is NOT connected to the ground bar.

835 CR 1 wall into the cpu hall. one window and one door

836 CR 1 looking to the kitchen

bassman · **Posted:** Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:50 am

Right then.... a little backtracking. I was going through the photos of the build and realized in my haste that I forgot some more framing details that might be interesting (or damning if I didn't do them right

. Anyhow, here's more details on how we have done the ceiling framing.

In order to maintain the best ceiling height in this basement and still have a fully isolated ceiling frame, we used some steel. The steel channel that was spec'ed by the engineer needed to somehow be attached to the top plate of the wall frames. These beams bear down on posts that we made by screwing together two studs and two track pieces into a 4x4 metal pole. This technique is also used to make headers and sills in metal framing.

You can see around my support pole we have four of these posts holding up the ends of four separate steel channels in the live room. This breaks up the span down to a max of 12' on either side of the channel. No problem for the 3 5/8" 18 ga studs to make that span with three layers of 5/8 gyp.

So...... here comes my neighbor the steel man, Dan! This is his truck with the 3000 watt gennie on the back for welding the beams onto the wall frames. We also ended up tack welding some track to the beams as well. The track is used to screw in the ceiling joists and hold them in place. The place felt like a scene out of Blade Runner for a few hours while Dan hooked up the beams.

Piccies cause I ain't lyin'.......

bassman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:08 am

Well, couple of questions for the forum today.....

1. What type of insulation is sufficient for in between the walls? My understanding is that rockwool is not necessary since all we are trying to do is dampen the resonance of the drywall panels. R11, R13??

2. On the seams of the first layer of drywall, not the corners, do we use normal tape and mud or do we caulk those seams?

I have just received my framing inspection and are preparing to insulate all the wall cavities. Whooooo, freekin' HOOOOOOOO :lol:

Now the fun begins! Getting some drywall up on the frames is really going to make it start to come together visually. My diary is a bit out of sync and I will post some more details of the framing, electric and HVAC stuff here in a bit. I'm behind schedule on posting. But the progress marches on and I am starting to lighten in mood.....

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:38 am

Well, we have more progress as the first layer of drywall goes up. I hate having to be the contractor on this because I just had to fire my whole crew. They were getting lazy and also trying to stiff me on time (lunch breaks, smoke breaks etc...) and on Friday they went out to lunch at 1 after I had cut checks to them early including the time set for Friday. They didn't show back up until 3:45 after drinking all day at the bar..... OY!

IT REALLY IS HARD TO FIND GOOD HELP THESE DAYS!!!!!! :evil:

Sooooooooooooooo, I have another crew coming Monday and all of the old crew's tools are parked at the door. Life is just grand, isn't it?

I do have a question or two about laminate glass....

1. Does it matter if the two layers of glass are of differing thicknesses themselves? My this I mean for a 1/2" piece of glass, is it better to have a piece of 1/8" laminated to a 3/8" piece or two 1/4" pieces laminated together? My intuitive guess is that differing thicknesses are better.

2. Does the thickness of the laminate layer itself make any difference? The guy I have spoken to asked whether 003 005 or 006 thick laminate material would be better. I have no idea which if any is better.

Perhaps Rod has some helplful info on this. My glass plan goes something like this:

Walls are double 5/8 gyp with green glue inbetween.
One pane will either be 3/8 or 1/2 thick.
The second pane will either be 1/2 or 5/8 thick.

I prefer to go the thicker amount if the budget allows. I don't have prices yet but my largest window is 3' x 5'. I imagine its going to be REAL expensive for this.
:shock:

OK, I need to post some pics here soon. Next post.

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:53 am

OK, some more glass info:

1. Its helpful to have two thicknesses of glass laminated together, for example: 3/8 lam to 1/2 for a 5/8 laminate piece.

2. This sh*t is expensive! My first quote for 6 panes was $4800. There are a couple of 4x5' panes that really eat up the budget. I am going to reduce the thickness to 3/8 and 1/2 to see how that affects the number.

One question I have is if the budget makes all laminate glass impossible for me, how would having on pane be laminate and the other being tempered work? I could go with 3/8" laminate and 1/2" tempered for one set of panes. Will that work reasonably well? I could up the tempered glass to 5/8" as well. Tempered is just soooooo much less money per square foot its ridiculous!

It seems some of the issue is laminate is easier to break so the installer needs a higher price in case he manages to break it while delivering and installing it.

I am getting closer and really need to post some pics. All the drywall is up and the HVAC runs are being hung in the rooms so that I can soffit around them. Once this is done, the finish work begins. I am trying to get my concrete finishing guy to come in and do some tests. I want to polish down the concrete to expose the stones and aggregate and then clear epoxy seal it for the the natural stone look.

I am designing the adjustable panels for the recording rooms now and will post those designs here to see what you all think. They are basically a hinged panel that has slats on the outside and fabric covered rockwool on the inside. When closed, we'll have more ambience but still absorption in the lower mids and upper bass. When opened, the highs will get absorbed more, reducing the HF RT.

Just picked up a used pair of PMC AB-1's that will be soffit mounted in the main control room. These puppies crank! the low end is simply amazing out of the box. I have them stashed at the mastering studio where I work so I can get used to them before installing them in the soffits.

I have two other pairs of PMC's, the LB-1's and TB-2's. All together, I am creating a 5.1 film mixing system that will have two AB-1's for the L & R, 1 LB-1 for center, and the two TB-2's for surrounds. I have a Tannoy 15" powered sub for the .1 channel and voila!!!! Surround. I just can't wait to fire this system up and watch some killer movies!!!! ..... Oh, yea.... and then mix some killer movies!!!

OK. Piccies or it didn't happen, right?
-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:26 am

Here are some piccies. They include some detail of how the ceiling looks up close, some wall separations and a window detail.

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:31 am

OK, some more......

More ceiling details and the completed live room ceiling

Me having to use the dreaded jackhammer to remove a concrete base for some very old cabinets.... sheesh they don't build em like they used to!

Finally, the new main control room door from the kitchen, apres jackhammer....

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:34 am

Here's my design for the variable acoustic panels. I want to make a bunch of these in a standard size to simplify fabrication and use standard 2' x 4' bales of rockwool. Sketchup file included....

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:09 pm

I have more questions regarding glass:

1. If we take two pieces of 1/4" laminate glass and glue them together around the edges, will that come close to a piece of 1/2" laminate glass in terms of sound performance or will it be much worse?

2. Would a 5/8" pane of tempered glass perform as well as a 1/2" pane of laminate?

The costs on 1/2 and 5/8 laminate are gratuitous at best. We are trying to find a reasonable compromise that will give me good performance for sound.

I am in the process of framing in the soffit wall now and other soffits for the HVAC ducts inside the rooms. I will have piccies forthcoming....

For now, here are some wiring shots.... We are using hospital grade iso-ground circuits for the audio gear and separate normal runs for utility stuff like laptops, lava lamps etc... You can see the new subpanel and then all the isolation boxes getting wires run into them. There's my assistant Bryan, with the audio wiring spools of Gepco multicore, RG6 and CAT6. All of this gets caulked real good before the insulation guys come.

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:28 am

I have been remiss in posting here on the build because this year has just been the most demanding of my life so far. I have been taking pictures and now that I'm closing in on the final I have found a bit more time to post progress. Anyhow, the latest episode: Glass Block Windows

We had to make frames for the glass block to go into the metal framing of the walls. Also, the window frames had to extend out from the framing so they will be even with the layers of drywall that are coming. Here are some shots of the frames as we made them and plopped them in right ahead of the glass block guy who had the panels pre-made and ready to go. We had to have the actual glass panels on site in order to make the frames just right and a tight fit. Tolerances are everything!!

The frames have a 3/4" stop at the back that will be siliconed to hold the glass in. The edges will also be siliconed once they are in. Acoustic caulk would be visible so we are using the standard clear silicone.

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:45 am

Right, now that all of the wiring is in, glass block and all the twiddly bits are covered, we can move on to insulation. One detail that I did not want to overlook (and my contractor kept harping on me about this) was insulating all the water and drain lines for sound. Nothing like a toilet flush to ruin a perfect take! :horse:

I had some foil backed HVAC duct insulation lying around that worked great for the drain lines and then bought a bunch of the water line stuff at Home Depot. Strangely enough, it was cheaper there than at the building supply place. You never know where to get the best price. It seems I always make 10,000 phone calls before figuring a place to buy something in quantity.

Speaking of cost, go with an insulation contractor. They can get the materials at such a reduced cost that even thinking about doing it yourself will cost more out of your pocket than getting some one else to handle the itchy stuff for you! All of this material in the walls was either R13 or in some larger cavities R30. No need for the rockwool as this is only dampening the drywall, not sound in the room. I don't think I'm going to have much of a heating bill though. Now there's a plus! :yahoo:

In the last pic, you can see the insulation between the two wall frames at the window. Later on, once the drywall was installed, I went back and did some wall thumping test (real scientific!!!) and realized that the insulation was packed too hard in there and had to pull some out to decouple the two walls. It made a HUGE difference. Insulation contractors think more is better but stay on top of everything when some one else is doing the work. The buck stops with me and no one else.

Anyhow, on with the piccies.....

-ashley

bassman · **Posted:** Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:07 am

Finally some rock on the wall! They started hanging the ceilings so that the wall layer will provide support and keep the ceiling square and true at the edges. Every corner gets backer rod and caulk. Most rooms are only two layers but the main control room gets three. The top layer in each room gets the green glue. I'm going with a minimal application due to cost (1 tube per 4x8 sheet).

OK, now for some boring shots of drywall going up..... This is the phase where my first crew decided to get lazy and got fired. The second crew had one guy who could hang drywall faster and better than anyone I've ever seen! This guy barely used a tape measure and cut the stuff so tight it was amazing.

Piccies....

-ashley

lilith_envy · **Posted:** Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:37 pm

Great job mate.
I'm glad your new tradies are wearing ear muffs! Not like that last guy with the steel cutter.

jwl · **Posted:** Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:30 pm

Congrats, Ashley! Keep the photos coming.

bassman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:17 am

Thanks for posting guys.... I was kinda feeling like I was tossing piccies into the VIOD :blah:

OK, Gyprockin' Part II

In these pics, you can see more boring rock going up but the interesting thing is the HVAC ducting that we've brought into each room. This was a key part of providing isolation and lowering air handling noise in the duct design. The idea was taken from a Walter-Stork designed room that had a detailed diary over at gearslutz:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/photo-di ... ienna.html

This was a really helpful build diary as I got a good idea of how Stork does the HVAC. They bring the supply and return into each room and then continue the duct inside around the room and soffit around that to add turns. the other thing to do here is to double the size of the duct once you are within the room. This slows the air down and reduces noise. That was a neat trick. You can use smaller ducts to get the air which keeps the static pressure up so the system works right. Then, once in the room, slow the air down for noise.

When I am in the rooms, the air handling noise is not perceptible. Now, this might change as I perfect the seals on the rooms and add treatment, but for now, I am extremely happy. :yahoo:

I did not put in any silencers at all. I planned the route of each supply and return to maximize the amount of turns and distance between adjacent rooms. This was a tricky bit of figuring but has worked well so far.

So, enough of my :blah:

and onto the PICCIES!!!!!!!

-ashley

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