John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum

My design is not finished, my sketchups are bad but I work !
see
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 3&start=30

I ve red rod gervais ' s book & posts.
I don t want a floating floor in the studio, just put some wood screwed to the concrete.

But before the beginning of the studio, I need to begin a building demolition in a month.
The studio & the building to be demolished & neighbour are on the same concrete floor (see jpg).
Do you think I need a "saignée" ( maybe Groove in english ?) in the concrete?
cut the concrete between studio and where cars will drive to avoid sound & vibrations ( blue think in the jpg)
do you think I need to do the same stuff between studio & neighbour ( red think in the jpg ) ?

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm

Hi garlo,

I do not think you want to cut the concrete.

Cutting the concrete will weaken it on the edge of the cut.

--Keith

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"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Hi Sharward
I don t want to cut the concrete,
I want to know if I need to cut it ?

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm

Since the concrete is on the ground, and the ground acts to dampen the concrete, I don't think the concrete is an effective transmission path.

I have learned a lot about this over the last two years. If you had asked me two years ago, I'd have given you a different answer.

--Keith

_________________
"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Thanks very much

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm

I'm not that certain this is true - the best way to know if you need to cut your slab (and if you do, you'll need to do a LOT more than just cut it, you'll need to cut a section out and pour a new footing) is to lay down on the concrete at the neighbor's area, and put your ear against the concrete - then have a helper bang on the concrete where your studio will go with a hammer - preferably use TWO types of hammer, one a normal metal one and the other a rubber hammer.

If you hear the hammer loud and clear, then whatever is beneath the slab is NOT damping the concrete enough, and your neighbor will NOT be happy with your studio unless he/she LOVES your music.... Steve

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Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...

Sorry... I misread the original question. I now see the two lines. I wasn't able to see them before (darned PDA screen).

--Keith

_________________
"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Hi, ok i vemade the test...
I can hear the hammer loud & clear coming from the north wall but I can also feel the sound coming through the concrete.

That building was a printing company ( with big Heidelberg printing machines).
I suppose the concrete is like in my house ( the building on the west side), 20cm thick.

So do you think I need to cut it maybe on 20cm large, & add some styrofoam or polystyrene before new concrete as :
old concrete neighbour / styrofoam / new concrete/styrofoam/ old concrete studio.
?

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm

Rod's book includes details on how you can cut concrete and then reinforce it from underneath so that it won't be weakened by the cut. It's definitely a lot of work, but in your case, it may make sense.

--Keith

_________________
"Converting a garage into living space requires a city permit . . . homeowners insurance won't cover a structure that's been changed without a building permit . . ." --Sacramento Bee, May 27, 2006

Agreed. You absolutely cannot go wrong getting that book, it'll be the best $ you spend... Steve

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Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...

I have the book, I red it again. Great book, thanks Mr Gervais.

Do you think it s better
1 /to make a new concrete floating floor inside the studio on the existing concrete or
2/ to cut the existing concrete outside the studio and make a new one 20cm large.

Both 1&2 can be made according to Rod's advices.

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm

What's the status of the space right now - is it just a slab with all walls down, partially demolished, or what?

What's your budget, and what is included in it?

How loud are you/will you be? How loud is the neighborhood?

What's your timetable?

Do you have a tentative layout design, and if so where's it posted?

Any other answers we've not asked the questions for, feel free to share - the more info we have on your situation, the closer to reality we may get with suggestions... Steve

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Soooo, when a Musician dies, do they hear the white noise at the end of the tunnel??!? Hmmmm...

Im a composer and already running a small studio. http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_studio.htm
I work mainly on my music + sound design & music for cartoons, movies, tv & radio ads & some music mix & mastering. Very few live recordings. Our vocal booth is actually the main recording room.
Our control room is about 40m2.

One year ago, I transformed an old industrial building in the suburb into a home & 2 appartments.

Project
I would like to design and begin my new studio near my home that year.
First I need to demolish the east part of the existing building so cars can go from the street to the new parking on the North,make new roofings, make a small house for a friend on the northern part of the building.


Space
After that I will begin the studio.
It was a printing company before.
The space is 9m38x7m38 inside.

The height in the center (line East to West )is 4m22, and 3m30 on the North & South walls.
Floor is concrete (20cm, same as the floor of the east part building I will demolish , & same as north part where there will be neighbourhood).
Walls are hollowed bricks (hollowed stone walls?).
Roof is metal ( steel?).

There will be a joint(?)neighbour on the north (second problem).
Other neighbours are on the west side, me, & 2 on the 2nd floor of my house, other houses are 50 meters away on the Eastern side.


Use
Sound design for commercials , multimedia ...
Music composition, mix & mastering ... & maybe some live recording ?
So usually many people in the control room (too much).
I ve tried a CR of 6m x 5m.
We need a vocal booth ( 1 or 2 speakers & a tv screen).
We need some windows on the South.
A door on the North for people coming from the parking.
A big door on the Eastside for loading unloading musicians gear.
A small room with the computers & amplifiers & adat will be great ( sound lock ?).
A live room will be great.

Here the last idea : http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 9eb8d0acc9
I ve tried to put the CR far from the North wall.

Gear
I will moove the existing gear so
Protools digo02, Adat , Mackie d8b,Weiss equalizer, Tc electronic finalizer & reverb, Lexicon reverb,
NS10 & Adat monitor II with Alesis matica900 amplifier,
Neumann Akg Audio technica microphones...

Loud
Sorry don t have something to measure, but when its loud its just for few moments in the CR with Adat monitor II + amplifier matica900 when mastering techno or dub music.
The main business is made with the NS10.
Even if we try in the future to work in the studio on live recording, it will be choirs or some bands with drums , ( hard rock bands use to work in another studio).

Budget
I will try with 20.000US$ for
east part demolition,
new roofing ( cheapest in france is sandwich-steel as on my house), friend house.
work on the concrete floor.

and 20.000US$ for the studio itself.

Timetable
I must demolish the east part & make new roofing before summer (building licence).
I will try to open the new studio at the end of 2007.

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm

What do you think ?

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm

?
please forgive my bad english , just want to know what do you think the best solution with my concrete floor ?

_________________
Earth Music !
http://www.cipaudio.com/eng_home.htm